From: Nam Cao <namcao@linutronix.de>
To: Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com>,
John Ogness <john.ogness@linutronix.de>,
Tomas Glozar <tglozar@redhat.com>
Cc: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
bpf@vger.kernel.org, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Wen Yang <wen.yang@linux.dev>,
Tobias Schaffner <tobias.schaffner@siemens.com>,
Viktor Malik <vmalik@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2026 10:01:43 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87h5ifqy6w.fsf@yellow.woof> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <0d4f11b1999588ddba9d855db43fc492eda32de1.camel@redhat.com>
Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com> writes:
> Fair enough, I feel to be cautious at redefining what reactors are right now,
> though. Currently they are nothing but a function call to the set-up action.
> It's trivial to verify where the code goes without adding the tracing subsystem
> as a dependency in the path (typically important in some safety critical cases).
> Sure, handlers are called by the same tracing subsystem nonetheless, so it may
> not add much value.
I am thinking about dropping reactors entirely and only use
bpf_printk. I have never been a fan of the panic reactor, crashing the
system because of an RV violation is a bit much. And the printk reactor
would be replaced by bpf_printk, just that the messages would be in
tracing ring buffer instead of kernel log.
Or do you already have potential future reactors in mind?
> Let's leave reactors aside for a moment. What I am coming to terms with,
> instead, is that the current ringbuffer to userspace design isn't what we want.
> In kernel monitors communicate their status through tracepoints, perfectly
> integrating to tracing tools, BPF monitors use a custom buffer.
>
> Generating a tracepoint here is probably the way to go. bpf_printk does generate
> one, but as Tomas pointed out, hijacking that for everything (think of monitor
> events) might be a bit much.
> Nonetheless, we want RV BPF handlers to generate tracepoints, then attaching
> actions on error tracepoints (whether we call that reactors or not) can be done
> later.
>
> Summarising, we have 2 potential designs.
>
> 1. bpf_printk only:
> bpf_printk("event: monitor: curr_state x event -> next_state")
> bpf_printk("error: monitor: event not expected in curr_state")
>
> 2. new kfunc(s) calling a tracepoint:
> trace_event_da_bpf("monitor", "curr_state", "event", "next_state")
> trace_error_da_bpf("monitor", "curr_state", "event")
>
> 1. is simpler and works mostly out of the box, depending on how powerful glob
> filters are, it can reach the same functionality as 2. Might risk to overload
> the shared bpf_printk event and perhaps have a higher filtering overhead.
> 2. is closest to the current in-kernel implementation and offers flexibility to
> easily filter the type of event (useful for DA, e.g. I want a backtrace only
> when going from state A to B). But it requires a series of kfuncs (e.g. error
> and event for each monitor class).
>
> In both cases a malicious actor could call the kfunc and make us believe there
> was a reaction (they cannot mess with the model though). If we own the kfuncs we
> can at least limit the availability (tracing-only and CAP_SYS_BOOT).
> This, unless we register BPF monitors in the kernel like in V1.
>
> I'm going to test each design once I get again to work on this.
>
> Thoughts?
I vote 1, much simpler (but maybe I just haven't quite got the issue). I
feel a bit ensure about adding RV kfuncs and would only go that route if
there is no other way.
Nam
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-10-21 8:01 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-10-01 15:20 [PATCH v2 00/15] rv: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] sched: Add task enqueue/dequeue trace points Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 7:09 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 10:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 11:55 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 19:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 19:40 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-04 7:57 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:54 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-04 7:45 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] tools/rv: Skip empty pid error in selftest if command failed Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] rv: Refactor da_trace() functions to get strings internally Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] rv: Cast result of model_get_*_name() Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-13 6:14 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-13 8:15 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14 9:52 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14 10:02 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] tools/rv: Move argument parsing from in_kernel to utils Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:25 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] tools/build: Add a feature test for bpftool-btf Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor discovery and listing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor loading and tracing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] tools/rv: Copy stripped bpf_atomic.h from libarena Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-07 12:59 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-08 9:00 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-08 11:16 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-09 10:09 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-11 0:43 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 7:43 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-06 13:29 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-08 9:54 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-16 18:32 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-16 19:20 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 10:42 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 15:17 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 16:09 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-17 16:56 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 23:25 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-18 12:10 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 9:05 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 9:27 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 9:46 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 13:16 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-19 10:01 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 10:43 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 11:05 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 12:47 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 13:05 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-21 7:26 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-19 13:02 ` John Ogness
2026-10-20 7:29 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21 8:01 ` Nam Cao [this message]
2026-10-21 11:54 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21 13:48 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-21 15:24 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21 16:47 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 8:33 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 9:10 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 10:48 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 12:51 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-19 13:14 ` John Ogness
2026-10-21 8:13 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-21 8:46 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21 11:12 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-21 15:55 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 10:48 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] tools/rv: Define CONFIG_X86_64 statically for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] tools/rv: Add reactors support to " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] verification/rvgen: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:25 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] tools/rv: Add selftest for rv bpf monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] verification/rvgen: Add selftest for rvgen -b Gabriele Monaco
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