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From: Steven Price <steven.price@arm.com>
To: "Adrián Larumbe" <adrian.larumbe@collabora.com>
Cc: Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@collabora.com>,
	Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org>,
	Maarten Lankhorst <maarten.lankhorst@linux.intel.com>,
	Maxime Ripard <mripard@kernel.org>,
	Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de>,
	David Airlie <airlied@gmail.com>, Simona Vetter <simona@ffwll.ch>,
	Faith Ekstrand <faith.ekstrand@collabora.com>,
	"Marty E. Plummer" <hanetzer@startmail.com>,
	Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu@tomeuvizoso.net>,
	Eric Anholt <eric@anholt.net>,
	Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@arm.com>,
	Philipp Zabel <p.zabel@pengutronix.de>,
	dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Collabora Kernel Team <kernel@collabora.com>,
	Neil Armstrong <neil.armstrong@linaro.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v12 12/15] drm/panfrost: Skip cache flush/invalidate when enabling perfcnt
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2026 14:21:39 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <c7a8c70e-9130-45dd-83dd-e7a3c591f68a@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <179130709099.1018806.10936869787038535987.b4-reply@b4>

On 06/10/2026 18:18, Adrián Larumbe wrote:
> On 2026-10-05 16:06:02+01:00, Steven Price wrote:
>> On 05/10/2026 09:38, Boris Brezillon wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Oct 2026 16:14:38 +0100
>>> Steven Price <steven.price@arm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think this can happen though, because _enable_locked() is
>>> creating a BO (and its GPU mapping) just before enabling the perfcnt
>>> block, meaning the buffer is known to have no dirty cacheline pointing
>>> to it until the first dump happens. And we do flush and invalidate GPU
>>> caches after each dump, so again, we should be covered.
>>
>> The situation isn't actually a dirty cache line at the start, but a
>> stale one. We start off with the memory matching a clean line in the
>> GPU's cache. But because we don't have coherency the clean line can stay
>> even if it's inconsistent with everything else.
>>
>> CPU		|	GPU		| Memory
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>>                 | clean line            | matches GPU cache
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>>    CPU allocates new buffer and writes zeros
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>> Dirty cache line| stale clean line      | unknown (cache line
>>                 |                       | might be evicted)
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>>    CPU cleans its own cache to memory
> 
> We're not doing this explicitly for BO memory from the CPU. AFAIK the only way to
> do that manually is calling dma_sync_single_for_device() on physical addresses. I
> suppose this means the reason why the CPU can see up-to-date dump data is because
> a GPU cache flush also invalidates CPU caches for the same lines?

Without coherency between the CPU and GPU then when sharing a buffer
with the GPU there needs to be cache maintenance (otherwise the GPU
might see stale data which is still in RAM, which would be a security
hole). This is because a previous user could have mapped the data
cached. I believe this is done internally within the DMA framework.

For reading the data written by the GPU, again there needs to be cache
maintenance - a flush on the GPU and an invalidate on the CPU. However I
think we map the data on the CPU as write-combining (i.e. uncached) so
there's no need for an explicit invalidate on the CPU - the reads will
bypass the cache.

>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>> Potential clean | stale clean line      | Matches CPU
>> cache line      |                       |
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>>    Start dump without invaliding GPU
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>> Potential clean | GPU writes data, and  | Unknown
>> cache line      | hits in the clean line|
>>                 | even though it's stale|
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>>    CPU flushes the GPU's cache and invalidates it's own
>> ----------------+-----------------------+--------------------
>> No-cache line   | writes out clean line | Matches GPU
>>
>>
>> Of course for the GPU to have ended up with that stale clean cache line
>> means that the physical memory was previously used for something else on
>> the GPU, so the newly allocated BO has to reuse memory from a previous
>> BO that the GPU has accessed. And it's all "unlikely" due to the small
>> size of the GPU's cache.
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, but that's not a case we can hit in the enable path. I think I
>>> mentioned the commit message was misleading, and that we should instead
>>> talk about the fact the GPU is not supposed to have cached anything up
>>> until the first SAMPLE following a the ENABLE step.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I was the one suggesting dropping this flush so that
>>> panfrost_perfcnt_hw_enable() (in the last patch) has one less fallible
>>> operation. Besides, I find it confusing to have a cache flush+inval in
>>> a path where the GPU is not supposed to have accessed the buffer yet
>>> (or later on, when we re-enable after a RESET, in a path where the GPU
>>> has been reset and the caches are known to be empty).
>>
>> So I agree this Should Be Safe™ because of how the driver is currently
>> using the performance counters. If we really want to drop the invalidate
>> then I think we need a comment explaining the logic. My worry is that
>> someone extends this in the future (e.g. allow selecting which counters
>> to enable) and breaks assumptions without them being documentead.
> 
> Perfcnt ioctl's are currently marked as unstable, but even so, adding the
> initial flush/invalidate back in case anyone ever wanted to redefine the
> uAPI to add support for fine-grained selection of counters shouldn't be
> much of an issue. It's just that, as things stand now, it simplifies error
> handling quite a bit, and I guess it's a reasonable trade-off.
> 
> I'll add a comment explaining why it's safe not to do the initial
> flush/invalidate in a new revision.
> 
>> We normally do perform an invalidate when the GPU first touches a buffer
>> (e.g. for a BO) - it's just normally more implicit because it's done as
>> part of the job manager(/command stream).
> 
> Does this mean instructions that are part of the command stream passed to the
> submit ioctl can trigger a flush/invalidate without CPU intervention?

Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned command streams - that's a Panthor
thing. For Panfrost the flush/invalidate is done as part of the job
submission (FLUSH_PT). With the Panthor and the MCU we then have a
FLUSH_CACHE2 instruction that can be part of the command stream - so yes
you can trigger (some forms of) a cache flush during the middle of a
command stream without CPU intervention.

Thanks,
Steve

>>
>> Also "caches known to be empty" is a dangerous thing to assume on
>> anything that could involve speculation - AFAIK Mali doesn't really
>> perform any form of speculation, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
>> Certainly with CPUs you don't get such a luxury of knowing what it might
>> have populated in the caches.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve
> 
> 


  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-07 13:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-09-29  3:44 [PATCH v12 00/15] Collection of fixes for Panfrost: Perfcnt, RPM, refactorings Adrián Larumbe
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 01/15] drm/panfrost: Move shrinker initialization and unplug one level down Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 13:58   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 02/15] drm/panfrost: Move lock and modparam initialisations into their subsystems Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:06   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 03/15] drm/panfrost: Move debugfs initialisation to relevant subsystems Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:10   ` Steven Price
2026-10-06  0:50     ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 04/15] drm/panfrost: Skip NULL checks for clock enable/disabling Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:14   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 05/15] drm/panfrost: Consolidate device clock management and reset Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:20   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 06/15] drm/panfrost: Fix PM refcnt and autosuspend issues at device probe/remove Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:21   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 07/15] drm/panfrost: Explicitly enable MMU interrupts at device init Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:26   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 08/15] drm/panfrost: Move all DRM device initialisation into device_init() Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:37   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 09/15] drm/panfrost: Add warning messages to fatal error conditions Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 14:59   ` Steven Price
2026-10-06 15:09     ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-07 12:51       ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 10/15] drm/panfrost: Add debugfs knob for manually triggering a GPU reset Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 15:10   ` Steven Price
2026-10-06 13:38     ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-07 12:54       ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 11/15] drm/panfrost: Move perfcnt GPU disable sequence into a helper Adrián Larumbe
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 12/15] drm/panfrost: Skip cache flush/invalidate when enabling perfcnt Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 15:14   ` Steven Price
2026-10-05  8:38     ` Boris Brezillon
2026-10-05 15:06       ` Steven Price
2026-10-05 15:37         ` Boris Brezillon
2026-10-05 16:05           ` Steven Price
2026-10-05 16:57             ` Boris Brezillon
2026-10-06 17:42               ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-06 17:35             ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-07 13:28               ` Steven Price
2026-10-06 17:18         ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-07 13:21           ` Steven Price [this message]
2026-10-06 16:45     ` Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-07 13:09       ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 13/15] drm/panfrost: Avoid cache flush after perfcnt sample in fully coherent systems Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 15:28   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 14/15] drm/panfrost: Introduce a reset lock Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 15:34   ` Steven Price
2026-09-29  3:44 ` [PATCH v12 15/15] drm/panfrost: Fix races between perfcnt and reset sequence Adrián Larumbe
2026-10-02 15:44   ` Steven Price
2026-10-06 14:14     ` Adrián Larumbe

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